Subject: devel-digest V2 #198
From: [email-masked] (devel-digest)
To: [email-masked]

devel-digest         Wednesday, June 16 1999         Volume 02 : Number 198

In this issue:

    Re: video capture
    ARM Linux announce postings
    Re: video capture
    Compaq Builds StrongARM-based, Linux run Handheld
    libfloat
    Re: libfloat
    Re: libfloat
    Re: Interesting drhystone test
    Re: libfloat
    Re: libfloat
    Re: libfloat
    Re: video capture

See the end of this digest for information about devel-digest.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 02:30:57 -0400
From: "Steve Schwartz" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: video capture

ok, i've got it displaying on the console with new_test
and I've got a strange double-frame display in X from xvideum.  why does it
keep freezing and the continuing and then freezing and then continuing?  is
this the buffer, the processor, or me?

- -Steve

Ralph Siemsen <[email-masked]> wrote in message
news:[email-masked]...
> Steve Schwartz wrote:
> >
> > Hey guys, can someone tell me how to use the video capture in this
thing.
> > I've never tried to deal with it before, but now I want to experiment.
> > Someone a while back posted that they had set it up to capture and post
to a
> > web page.  That's what I'm trying to do.
>
> Plug in any old video source (a camera, your VCR, etc) into the input...
> then go to /usr/diag/vidcap and run either newdemo (for console) or
> xvideum (under X) for starters... for capturing single frames, you can
> try the little program source from PatB's home directory or from mine
> http://www.netwinder.org/~ralphs/tmp/.  There's also MarkK's "netwinder
> tv" application (look in ~markk).
>
> --
> Ralph Siemsen -- [email-masked]

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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 08:14:44 +0100 (BST)
From: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin <[email-masked]>
Subject: ARM Linux announce postings

Hi.

This is a reminder to tell you all about the linux-arm-announce
mailing list on lists.arm.linux.org.uk.

It is a majordomo-run list, so the normal subscription technique
can be used.

The list auto-archives onto the FTP site - in
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Enjoy!
   _____
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  | | | |  http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/~rmk/armlinux.html    /  /  |
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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:05:09 -0400
From: Ralph Siemsen <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: video capture

Steve Schwartz wrote:
> 
> ok, i've got it displaying on the console with new_test
> and I've got a strange double-frame display in X from xvideum.  why does it
> keep freezing and the continuing and then freezing and then continuing?  is
> this the buffer, the processor, or me?

The double display in xvideum is intentional.  One half is "live" data,
ie. the video chip is pasting it directly into the video data stream
(therefore the image is never in memory).  The other half is the cpu
actually grabbing and copying the data.  If you move the mouse out of
the window (ie. put the focus on another window) this process will stop
and you'll get full-speed video displayed in half of the box.

- -- 
Ralph Siemsen -- [email-masked]

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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:17:35 -0400
From: Matthew Keller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Compaq Builds StrongARM-based, Linux run Handheld

	Sorry for the non-development post, but I felt this was as good news to
the Netwinder development community as the Linux community as a whole.

>From Reuters:

Compaq Computer researchers have developed a
Linux-based handheld computer called the Itsy, the
company said today.

Researchers in the computing giant's Palo Alto,
California, lab modified the open source operating
system for use in a device that's slightly smaller than
a PalmPilot, according to Compaq spokesman
Gary Frazier.

The product is intended "to explore futuristic ideas
in handheld and wearable computing," Frazier said.
About 75 prototypes exist.

But Compaq doesn't intend to market the Itsy at
retail. "This research could influence future
products, but there are no plans to bring this to
market," Frazier said.

Nonetheless, Linux's presence in the teeny Itsy
computer can be seen as a proof point for the
Unix-like software. Linux may not be as good as
operating systems designed from the ground up to
run handheld devices, but does provide a workable
alternative--royalty free.

Of late, Linux has been cropping up in smaller and
smaller computing devices. Examples include "thin
client" systems--computers tied to a central
server--and forthcoming TV set-top boxes. Even
America Online is working on a Linux-based
system designed to connect to its network with a
minimum of fuss, according to sources.

Itsy is described at a Compaq Web site. The
device has a touch screen and a few buttons. Not
only does it run personal digital assistant software
such as email, but also it plays the popular video
game Doom, with the player navigating through the
video game universe by tilting the Itsy forward and
back. Compaq calls the system "rock 'n' scroll."

The machine uses a 200-MHz StrongARM
processor and has a 320-by-200 pixel screen. It
also comes with a microphone, speaker, and
infrared port.

Some conference-goers attending Sun
Microsystems' JavaOne conference may be able to
take a closer gander, said Transvirtual chief
executive Tim Wilkinson. The Berkeley, California,
start-up focuses on cloning Sun's Java technology,
 but its software also powers the Itsy's graphical
environment, Wilkinson said.

Compaq says the kernel for Itsy is freely available.
Linux is an open-source operating system, meaning
that anyone may see and modify the software, but
that those modifications must be released back to
the open source community. 

- -- 

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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 11:16:23 -0400
From: Eric Thomas <[email-masked]>
Subject: libfloat

Where can I find the latest libfloat.so?  My application works well with
the NWFPE, but crashes when I compile against libfloat-981015.  
Is there more recent version of libfloat that fixes all the bugs
that were found while developing NWFPE?

I am getting very poor performance from the NWFPE and would like to 
see if libfloat is considerably faster.

Thanks,
Eric

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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:24:29 -0400
From: Scott Bambrough <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: libfloat

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Eric Thomas wrote:
> 
> Where can I find the latest libfloat.so?  My application works well with
> the NWFPE, but crashes when I compile against libfloat-981015.
> Is there more recent version of libfloat that fixes all the bugs
> that were found while developing NWFPE?
> 
> I am getting very poor performance from the NWFPE and would like to
> see if libfloat is considerably faster.
> 
> Thanks,
> Eric

Hi Eric,

That is the latest version of libfloat.  In order to use it you have to
recompile your application with the -msoft-float flag, and link with the
library.  Everything has to be recompiled.  Use the static library for fastest
results.

AFAIK that version works.  There haven't been any changes to the SoftFloat code
in the NWFPE.  Most of the bugs in the NWFPE are in the OS-emulator interaction,
or in the emulator code itself.

Perhaps if you post some more information I can be of more help.

Scott
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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:53:01 -0400
From: Eric Thomas <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: libfloat

Scott Bambrough wrote:
> 
> Eric Thomas wrote:
> >
> > Where can I find the latest libfloat.so?  My application works well with
> > the NWFPE, but crashes when I compile against libfloat-981015.
> > Is there more recent version of libfloat that fixes all the bugs
> > that were found while developing NWFPE?
> >
> > I am getting very poor performance from the NWFPE and would like to
> > see if libfloat is considerably faster.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Eric
> 
> Hi Eric,
> 
> That is the latest version of libfloat.  In order to use it you have to
> recompile your application with the -msoft-float flag, and link with the
> library.  Everything has to be recompiled.  Use the static library for fastest
> results.
> 
> AFAIK that version works.  There haven't been any changes to the SoftFloat code
> in the NWFPE.  Most of the bugs in the NWFPE are in the OS-emulator interaction,
> or in the emulator code itself.
> 
> Perhaps if you post some more information I can be of more help.
> 
> Scott

Two follow-up questions:
1)  Is the libfloat source available.  This would help me track down the
problem.

2)  What byte format does the libfloat library use for doubles? 
Typically on ARM,
the two words comprising a double are in little endian order while the
individual
bytes are in big endian.  Thus when converting to and from a long long,
you must
swap the two words of double.  Is this the same when using libfloat?

I will try to post the specific problem I am seeing.

Eric

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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 16:06:21 -0400
From: "Andrew E. Mileski" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Interesting drhystone test

Pat Beirne wrote:
> I noticed that AndrewM has built a drhystone
> RPM. I installed and ran it, and I got
>     370,370 loops per second.

Hmmm....page iii of the SA-110 TRM says:
  115 Dhrystone 2.1 MIPS @100 MHz
  185 Dhrystone 2.1 MIPS @160 MHz
  192 Dhrystone 2.1 MIPS @166 MHz
  230 Dhrystone 2.1 MIPS @200 MHz
  268 Dhrystone 2.1 MIPS @233 MHz
Which using simplistic extrapolation (275/233*268) gives 316.
Seems about in the right ballpark.

- --
Andrew E. Mileski - Software Engineer
Rebel.com  http://www.rebel.com/

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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:13:42 -0400
From: Scott Bambrough <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: libfloat

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Eric Thomas wrote:
> 
> Two follow-up questions:
>
> 1) Is the libfloat source available.  This would help me track down the
> problem.

ftp://ftp.netwinder.org/users/s/scottb/libfloat/libfloat-981015.tgz

> 2) What byte format does the libfloat library use for doubles?
> Typically on ARM, the two words comprising a double are in little endian order while the
> individual bytes are in big endian.  Thus when converting to and from a long long,
> you must swap the two words of double.  Is this the same when using libfloat?

Yes libfloat uses the ARM conventions for the floating point numbers. 
Internally it converts them to the format expected by SoftFloat and back again
when return the result.

Scott
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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:40:10 -0400
From: Scott Bambrough <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: libfloat

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The following is part of a messages I wrote a while back describing the
- -msoft-float flag.  I thought the list might find it useful.  I have a better
description in html form somewhere.  I'll have a look tonight.

Ok, some background on -msoft-float and the compiler is order I think.  The
compiler usually generates floating point instructions for math operations with
float, double and long double variables.  It assumes an FPA11 floating point
unit is available.  Since this hardware is not available on the NetWinder when
these instructions are executed, and invalid instruction
trap is executed.  This causes the program to core dump.

The Acorn FPE and NWFPE are FPA11 emulators.  They hook into the undefined
instruction trap, check the instruction that faulted.  If it is a floating point
instruction they emulate it and return control to the program as if a trap had
never occurred.

It is possible to get the compiler to assume no floating point hardware exists. 
To do this use -msoft-float.  The compiler then generates function calls instead
of floating point instructions.  No changes are needed to program code, just
recompilation.  This means a library is needed to satisfy the refernces to the
function calls generated.  This library is libfloat.  The library is not part of
GCC; the GCC designers expect a library to be provided.

This library is only required to implement the functions the compiler is going
to generate calls to.  This is a finite set of functions. The version of
libfloat in my mailbox does just that.  It uses an IEEE floating point function
library to implement the functions.  It should be possible to implement the same
functions using fixed point math.  This would be of use for
programs that don't care about IEEE compliance (most don't).  

>>From Phil:

No, the soft-float library interface isn't well documented.  The function names
are basically the names of the insns in the md file that they take the place of
and the operands are again as for those insns.
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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 18:37:29 -0400
From: Eric Thomas <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: libfloat

> AFAIK that version works.  There haven't been any changes to the SoftFloat code
> in the NWFPE.  Most of the bugs in the NWFPE are in the OS-emulator interaction,
> or in the emulator code itself.
> 
> Perhaps if you post some more information I can be of more help.

Here is a small test program that demonstrates the difficulity I am
seeing.

#include <stdlib.h>

int main(int argc, char *argv[])
{
   long long ll_foo, ll_bar;
   double    d_foo;
  
   ll_foo = 56L;
   d_foo = (double)ll_foo;
   ll_bar = (long long)d_foo;   

   printf("ll_foo = %ld\n",ll_foo);
   printf("ll_bar = %ld\n",ll_bar);
}

If I compile this using the NWFPE, it works correctly in that
ll_foo and ll_bar are both 56.  If I compile it to use libfloat
(-msoft-float -lfloat),
ll_bar is is zero.  Either, or both, the double to long long and long
long to double 
conversion do not work.  

Eric

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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:32:05 -0400
From: "Steve Schwartz" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: video capture

gotcha.  now it works, thanks.

- -Steve Schwartz
[email-masked]

Ralph Siemsen <[email-masked]> wrote in message
news:[email-masked]...
> Steve Schwartz wrote:
> >
> > ok, i've got it displaying on the console with new_test
> > and I've got a strange double-frame display in X from xvideum.  why does
it
> > keep freezing and the continuing and then freezing and then continuing?
is
> > this the buffer, the processor, or me?
>
> The double display in xvideum is intentional.  One half is "live" data,
> ie. the video chip is pasting it directly into the video data stream
> (therefore the image is never in memory).  The other half is the cpu
> actually grabbing and copying the data.  If you move the mouse out of
> the window (ie. put the focus on another window) this process will stop
> and you'll get full-speed video displayed in half of the box.
>
>
> --
> Ralph Siemsen -- [email-masked]

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End of devel-digest V2 #198
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